Q: Tell me about yourself, what did you want to be when you grew up?
I am a person that loves to serve and help others. My mom always tells me stories that my grandfather- he passed away when I was 3. I was always trying to take care of him, rubbing his back and all these things, that just got bigger so I would say, “I want to be a doctor when I get older.” That didn’t come to fruition, but the helping part of my life has become everything that I do.
When I was in high school I ran track I was an early captain just because I like to help others figure out how to do it and the way to do it best, that leadership piece of helping and serving, so the doula thing came naturally. I’ve done a lot of different things with athletics, nurturing and helping moms, something to do kids like babysitting jobs and nannying, all those things to get through grad school.
You have a Bachelors of Science in Human Development and Family Studies, you’re an Olympic hopeful, a coach for SUNY Albany, and a Masters of Divinity. Tell me about all of this!
I like a lot of things. I moved into human development and family studies after going into Penn State as a Pre-Med major after realizing I couldn’t do athletics to the level that I wanted and that so I ultimately thought: “What is the next best thing?” and that’s how I got into human development. It was looking at how people work, how they move, why they make certain decisions and how they develop. So through that process I thought: “This will work for me, not sure what I’ll do next but this will work for me.” I did a minor in psychology, I love to see how people’s minds think.
As for the Master’s in Divinity, I’ve always been very spiritual person and again, it’s about understanding why are people making the decisions that they make, what are the emotions behind it.
I wanted to be an Olympian when I was a kid. When I was in 11th grade, a fake Olympic torch was brought through my hometown and I was one of the chosen to carry it. My grandmother told everyone that I was an Olympian. So as I continued on in athletics I had to pursue this and do a really good job that so she wouldn’t be a liar.
I was really close, in 2004 when I competed I came in 8th but they take only the top 3. I competed in the discus, shot put, hammer, weight. Discus was my best event.
Your background in helping others and fitness has really helped shape your business at Renew 360, which encompasses many different things. Tell me about that.
I really like the idea of a whole person, really thinking about life coaching, yoga, doula. It’s all wellness and health. It may seem like a lot of different things but to me it’s all under one umbrella of health and wellness. I look at how we function around the whole wheel of life, am I looking at the spiritual, emotional wellness, physical wellness, what is my nutrition doing, am I moving in the correct way.
That was something that my coach in college was big on. Yes I was there on a scholarship but she was also always concerned with “How are you?” How are you feeling?”
We know as coaches you can’t do something effectively well, like run fast or throw a ball unless you are emotionally healthy. You won’t be in the moment of that thing, you’ll be going through the motions but will not be doing it well, you won’t be capitalizing on your talents. You won’t run on full capacity unless you are entirely well.
That translates directly into becoming a mom and going into parenthood. Whether it’s through birth or adoption, you have to look at your whole emotional and spiritual wellness before you can do anything effectively well.
Q: What is a doula?
As a doula, it’s basically women supporting women, during birth and after birth. We are emotional, informational and physical support.
Being their consistent one on one, that person that’s there constantly from when the prenatals come, through the birth process and and after birth. A lot of times in medical practice you’ll be in a circulation you won’t know which doctor will be there to deliver your baby, but with a doula there you have that consistent support.We help to reduce some of that stress the unknown can bring.
Knowledge brings some safety, so you feel a little safer which decreases your stress levels giving you a better birth outcome.
Doulas are also an advocate for women and their partners.
So what we are empowering is the mom to advocate for herself. I’m not going to talk to the doctor for you, but I’m going to give you clear information and confirm she understood what the doctor said, make sure she feels comfortable with what was said.
For example, the pros and cons of circumcision. I don’t have an opinion of what you do, I just want to make sure you make an informed decision. Anything that’s major for you, I want to support you in your choices. You have a right to the best information in that moment, I want to support you making the best decision for your family.
You don’t have to have a natural birth a home to have a doula present. You can give birth in a hospital or have a C-section with a doula.
A lot of people think doulas are the earthy, like the 70s kind of thing. No, everyone should have a doula! Even if you are having a scheduled C-section, or emergency c-section, however you decide it’s going to be best for you, having that support in addition to your partner. We’re not here to replace your partner by any means, we’re here to support them too. They have feelings about this too, they’re sitting on the sidelines, unsure of how to help, so we encourage them to get involved.
I’ve found some clients are more willing to let me say it in the moment than their partner. We’re in a business relationship they’re more inclined to listen to what I’m saying in that moment than if their partner has said it. That’s something else that helps calm the situation in an event that’s already a major event in both of your lives.
Q: Why is hiring a doula so important in a woman’s birth plan?
Hiring a doula is so important because it provides a safety net of peace, I think. I feel like doulas are there to work with and be part of the team. I’m not a midwife, there is a difference.
The easy difference is I’m at the head and the midwife is at the catch. We work in partnership. It’s all about building the right team for you. Whether its family support, OB/GYN, chiropractor, acupuncturist, a midwife, whatever the best team is for you.
My athletic background really helps me to see it has a team, no one part is greater than another. The goal is for a happy healthy mom and baby, successful postpartum and happy at home.
Q: Everything about a woman’s life changes after childbirth and a huge part of being a doula is helping a woman and her partner after birth find their new normal.
With the postpartum care I will do overnights so everybody can get a good night’s sleep. I have never carried a baby but when I was thrown into postpartum, I found that it’s just difficult. I haven’t eaten, I haven’t had anything to drink, and this baby is crying. So giving some reprieve around that, saying: “It’s OK to not know what you’re doing and it’s OK to ask for help.”
Again with the mental health piece I think we have this stigma around that you have to know all of the things in that moment, but you don’t. You can ask for help. I get to come in and help and say, “Hey, can I do the dishes?” because you’re stressed out and people are coming in and out of the house and the dishes are still sitting there in the sink. Family coming over you feel like you have to be “on” and entertain, with me you don’t have to be. I don’t care what the house looks like, it should be a mess if you’ve just delivered a baby. I’m not a maid, but I’ll do baby’s laundry, I’ll hold baby while you sleep, I’ll bring baby to you if you’re breastfeeding and take them again so you can rest.
Even someone just to talk about your experience. You just went through this huge experience and you want to talk about it but not everyone wants to hear the details, I do want to know. I want to listen to what happened so I can support you in that way. I can be hired for the entire process or just for postpartum, it’s all about the relationship.
Q: What do you love about doula postpartum the most?
I love seeing moms get it; especially first time moms. I love to see their face and the joy they have when they can enjoy parenthood because they don’t have to do it by themselves. I love seeing and helping people see its OK to not do all of the things all the time. That connection can really change how you interact. That time and that touch changes things.
I love how your business is so focused on postpartum. The birth is a short time compared to postpartum.
It’s the 4th trimester. The baby is acclimating to you just as you are to them. Before when they needed food, they had it quickly. You know what they needed when baby was in the womb. Now the baby is out and you have to figure out what is needed. I think about it as a language, and you have to be patient with yourself as you learn. You can’t walk into a Spanish class and expect to know how to speak fluently within the first week, so why would I expect to know the language of my baby in a week?
People say I’ll be ready when it’s my turn to give birth, and I said, “or I’ll be completely lost because I’m new at doing it myself.” Every baby is different and I’ll still need that support. I’ll absolutely have my mom there, my partner and I will definitely hire a doula. All of these things will be in place for my team.
No one person helps you be successful by themselves. I was an NCA National champion in the discus, my coach contributed to that, my athletic trainer contributed, my teammates contributed but it was me out on the field. Everyone played a role for me to be successful.
Q: Switching gears a little bit. According to the CDC, women of color are more likely to die of pregnancy related causes and most of these are preventable. Why is this disparity among women of color?
Several things. Institutional systems are in place that have dictated how women of color are listened to and heard, in any medical situation, and in particularly in birth. So if a woman of color comes in and says: “I am feeling like something isn’t right.” They are told it’s fine, here’s some medicine. Whereas is someone in their counterpart comes in and says the same thing, they’ll run a couple of tests.
This isn’t something I’m just projecting, this is the actual experiences of people I’ve connected with and spoken to. So when you’re not being heard and you start to second guess what you’re feeling, the next thing you know you’re in an emergency situation, and it’s too late.
So if we were heard in the beginning, and the stress levels of living the life of the the skin you’re in, are already elevated. So this skin that I’m in causes me to have higher stress levels just because I don’t know what I’m going to encounter on any given day. As much as people believe that they don’t have biases, we all do. When we acknowledge them, then we’re gonna be better off. And not only acknowledge but talk about them and not being afraid to have conversations around that, then we will start to see some better outcomes.
A doula can’t stop these things from happening but we can try to alleviate some of that stress around it. Knowledge creates safety and you can feel more comfortable.
In my most recent training, the instructor gave an example of someone in her class training to become a doctor. She raised her hand and said: “Isn’t it true that people of color just have thicker skin so they don’t have as much pain?” This is in the last 5 years that the woman was in the training and that information is still in some of the textbooks that they are reading and using. It’s not true if you’re wondering. But these are the though processes of people sometimes.
I’m of the mind that, while I’m annoyed by what you just said, if someone were to say that to me, I also want to educate you and help you be better. The most effective way I can do that without being dismissive, I want to try and give you good information so that you don’t say anything to anyone else. I wasn’t in that particular room at that particular time. But we all have to take ownership of let me do better, how can I do better. Because I try and confront my biases as well, so if each one of us does that then we’re going to be better off. It’s not about an ego thing, running away from it or a defense, it’s about help me understand. And how do I help myself understand so that I can be better.
Women don’t always realize they have options when giving birth. It’s OK to question or get a second opinion.
And it’s OK to leave. Its OK to be in your 8th month and decide that this isn’t what you want and find a new practice. You’re the consumer. We do that if its a restaurant, we tell people if the service was bad. But we say nothing if it’s not what we wanted in birth process.
Q: The cost of a doula is sometimes not covered by insurance. What do you say to someone that wants to hire you but can’t afford it?
They can use their Flexible Spending, (FSA). I do payment plans. I try to be flexible because everyone should have access to a doula who wants one. In this area, there is a large range of what each doula charges. So part of it is seeing which doula will meet your financial needs. Another part is the heart of the doula, the heart of the person providing this service.
Q: Where can we learn more about doulas?
EvidenceBasedBirth.com has great information. Ancient Song, Carriage House.
There’s lots of places. I also tell people if I’m not the right fit for you, allow me to refer you to someone. Still chose a doula. Doulas also partner with each other and cover for each other to make sure the clients are cared for.
Q: What do you do for lunch?
I have a shake or smoothie bowl, leftovers. I eat in my car a lot.
